Game of Thrones Book vs. Show Discussion (Season Four)

After a first season that adhered fairly closely to the source material, Game of Thrones moved away from absolute adherence to the structure of George R.R. Martin's second volume, A Clash of Kings, and went even further afield in the third season. That's both exciting and confusing for those of us who have read the books, as we know what to expect but not when to expect it. And because we want the reviews to remain safe for those readers who haven't read the books, we need a place to talk about those changes.



This is that place: a discussion thread for those of us who have something to say about the changes, adaptations, alterations, and deletions in the fourth season of Game of Thrones.

The rules for this season are simple: anything in the books--any of the books--is fair game. Given the show's increased willingness to depart from the chronology of the source material, it seemed best to assume that we might get dashes of A Dance with Dragons in the show's fourth season.

We will link to this thread in each review of season four posted by the Agents of D.O.U.X.


And now, to get us started: Which part of the books are you looking forward to most this season?

71 comments:

Morgan India said...

New!Tommen and Oberyn Martell and Ellaria Sand.

annie auger said...

Hello agents of DOUX and commenters! I'm coming out of lurkdom to join the fun in this thread.
I LOVE this site by the way!

Now, for GoT: I'm excited for the entire season, as it will be the first time I'll be watching with a full understanding of what's going on (I read the entire series last summer). I've re-watched seasons 2 & 3 recently and I must say that having read the books definitely make for a better TV experience!


I'm specially looking forward to Joffrey's wedding (but who will be the culprit, as Littlefinger's now gone?) and I'm wondering how far Tyrion will get this year. Will we see Tywin's demise, in the finale maybe?

I'm also wondering what they will do with Sansa, as I noticed a significant change in series 3 (vs the books): Littlefinger leaves for the Eyrie without her, before she's even married to Tyrion. That's way earlier than in the books. How (if ever) will she get to the Eyrie?

Billie Doux said...

Hey, Annie -- welcome, and congratulations on posting your very first comment! Hopefully, the first of many.

Mark Greig said...

As Billie said, thank you for joining us annie auger.

RE: Littlefinger, as I recall he was never at Joffrey's wedding in the book. He'd already left long before then. He did orchestrate Sansa's escape from the city, however, but was never there in person. I'm not sure how they will handle the escape on screen since we haven't seen Ser Dontos Hollard since season 2 and I don't know if he will be brought back or they'll introduce a new character to take his place.

sunbunny said...

So excited for the Purple Wedding I can't even begin to say. (Also I'm almost done with ADWD!! FINALLY. That thing's taken me forever. I'm really sick of characters being on long sea voyages now.)

paivi said...

I'm so excited about the show this season - I think departing from the increasingly messed-up books has been the best thing to happen for Martin's creation since Storm of Swords came out.

Nothing much has happened in the books for over 2000 pages, apart from a few necessary cliffhangers to keep us interested. The show, on the other hand, has been riveting to watch. The writers have handled character dynamics and plot arcs much better than in the books.

I recently started re-reading the series, and I was shocked to realise that much-loved people like Loras, Margaery and Shae were hardly characters in their own right in the books. The show has breathed life to them in a manner that the books never bothered to do.

The only change I haven't liked was the season-long torturing of Theon. I much preferred it happen off-page and definitely I'd have been happy for it to take place off-screen. Torture porn, not really my kind of thing.

Morgan India said...

Mark, apparently Dontos WILL be in the first couple of episodes.

And Sunny, we don't talk about the Purple Wedding.

sunbunny said...

Morgan - You do realize that is *ALL* we're going to talk about, right?

Samantha Gomes said...

My two favorite characters: Littlefinger (and his "delicate" relationship with Sansa) and Tyrion Lannister. Counting seconds!

Colin Peabody-Verteuil said...

Well, I might be the only one in the entire fandom but my favorite characters go are Cersei and Joff so I am NOT looking forward to the Purple Wedding ! I will be crying all night long, when I was having a party after the Red Wedding.
I am however looking forward to, "You raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children. NOW SAY HER NAME."
That, I can't wait for.

Jess Lynde said...

I am most gleefully anticipating the arrival of the Red Viper and the wedding. But I'm most curious about how they are going to handle Shae's story and Brienne's story. TV Shae is so different, I just can't see her tale going the same on screen, and so I look forward to seeing it unfold. And based on some of the episode titles, it seems like they may be pulling up some of Brienne's Book 4 story into this season. I'm curious to see how that works from a timeline perspective.

I'm also curious how they are going to work the "betrayals" in Dany's story. Since she already knows full well who Barristan Selmy is, will he still end up in the sewers for some other perceived betrayal? Or will Jorah be on his own?

Morgan India said...

I'm not looking forward to Tyrion's trial, mainly because it means that we'll only get a little bit of Oberyn before the Mountain happens.

Jess, a split-second clip in one of the trailers seems to show Shae on a very lush looking bed so maybe they are going to go with book-Shae's storyline. Who knows.

I am loving the idea that instead of Ser Ilyn Payne helping Jaime learn to fight left-handed, they're using Bronn. It means we don't lose Jerome Flynn and get to see him interact with someone other than Peter Dinklage.

And can I just say that Lena-as-Cersei looks especially gorgeous wearing black? Maybe it's because she's not wearing her customary red dresses that it looks gorgeous.

Also hopefully Lady Stoneheart will be the season finale cliffhanger like it is in the books.

And I honestly think that new!Daario looks a lot more like book!Daario, even without the blue hair. But maybe I'm just really biased because I loved him on Nashville.

ALSO TOMMEN AND HIS KITTENS NEEDS TO HAPPEN. And the outlawing of beets.

Juliette said...

I'm more half-dreading a lot of this season, especially Shae, I really hope they change her storyline (and that shot of her on a bed is just to tease book-readers). I'm looking forward to the last few episodes with Jaime and Brienne together before she leaves (and if season five features their reunion before Martin gets around to publishing WoW, that could get really interesting - but I'm getting ahead of myself). I'm especially looking forward to the changes - I agree with Morgan, putting Jaime and Bronn together is a great idea (especially Jaime spends a lot of FFC wandering around without anyone significant to talk to outside of threatening people), and the new Purple Wedding, with bizarrely, Brienne there as well as Jaime should be really interesting.

Er, I am also interested in other characters. Honestly. A bit.

sunbunny said...

Shae was acting a lot more like book!Shae than show!Shae in the season opener. The jealousy, the pettiness. It makes me wonder if they're setting her up for her canonical end after all. I did like that her issues with Tyrion aren't migrating over to her feelings for Sansa. She cares about her and I really like people who care about Sansa. Maybe she'll join her when she escapes from King's Landing?

Morgan India said...

I know a lot of people were weary over the fact that not much happened in the episode, but considering everything that will potentially happen, the Purple Wedding, the Battle of Castle Black, Tyrion's Trial, Tywin on the Toilet, they really used the episode well to set everything up.

And how perfect was Pedro as Oberyn? Shame we do not get him for very long.

Juliette said...

I really wanted to say in the review 'OK I know nothing happened this week but just wait till next week!' Thought that would be too spoilery though.

I think I'm going to enjoy this season more on re-watches. I really hate the way Book-Tyrion-Shae goes and until I know how closely they'll follow that and how bad it's going to be, I'm not entirely relaxed. At least I get lots of Jaime to keep me happy in the meantime!

Samantha Gomes said...

I was one of the ones who found theepisode opener was kind of slow. I really expected more, but since then I've pondered and they really needed a catching up with al the viewers.
I just had one doubt: isn't the relationship between Jaime and Cersei slightly different from the book It's been a while I've read it, so I don't remember

Jess Lynde said...

I get the feeling that Tywin is going to kill Shae, and that will be the inciting incident for Tywin on the Toilet. The fight seemed purely designed to let Sansa's other handmaid discover the link between Shae and Tyrion, so she could let Cersei know. And in the S3 opener, Tywin told Tyrion he would kill the next whore he found in his bed. So when she's looking to lash out, maybe Cersei will divulge her new knowledge and that will lead to Shae's death. Or maybe she'll use it to get Shae to turn against Tyrion somehow, a la the book. I'm just not sure at this point. But ever since I heard that line from Tywin on our recent rewatch, I've been anticipating that as Shae's possible fate.

Kelly said...

Jess, I almost hope it goes the way you suggest instead. Certainly the show is up to something (hopefully different) by showing the maid catching them together.

Up until maybe this opener I've really enjoyed how they've written Shae far differently than the books. She's been a much more interesting and rounded character, when GRRM just painted her as completely mercenary. (I didn't read SoS until after season 2 of the show, so my jaw just about dropped when she testified against Tyrion in the book. The show had given me such a more positive impression of Shae, and I was so shocked she would do that to him. And then Tyrion finding her in his father's bed? The dad who berated him constantly about prostitutes? It was really too much. Totally understandable that Tyrion killed them!)

Unfortunately it seems they are headed that way on the show too, by showing her so jealous now after his marriage to Sansa. The problem is, it doesn't make sense with the character as they've shown her in earlier seasons, and even less so when she is still caring with Sansa. She knows neither of them wanted this marriage, and she knows Sansa is miserable and totally disgusted by Tyrion, so her extreme jealousy here just reads as off. What is she jealous about, that Tyrion is trying to show Sansa some sympathy? Shae is treating Sansa in the same careful way.

It feels like they're trying to push things back to Shae testifying against him, but if so I think they should find a less clumsy way to do it.

And one last thing... is it just me or does Tyrion's scar keep shrinking?? I remember having this conversation with a friend before the Battle of Blackwater, where we agreed that no way would they make Tyrion's injury as bad as it was in the books. Nobody wants to look at that. :P But I do find it comical that it seems to be getting smaller.

sunbunny said...

Kelly - YES! His scar is almost gone and in the book half his nose was hacked off! Obviously, doing the whole nose off thing would've required too much CGI or whatever, but they could've made him scarrier.

J.D. Balthazar said...

Okay, so I haven't read the later books. I've basically been spoiler free since the Red Wedding, so the purple wedding came as a surprise. It was telegraphed, but I honestly thought it was a fake out.

Ding, dong, the dick is dead.

sunbunny said...

Watching The Lion and the Rose now. We didn't see Theon learn about Robb in the books I don't think. And I know we didn't see Tyrion and Jaime interact after Jaime returned but before Tyrion's trial.

annie auger said...

The purple wedding was great! But the rest of the episode fell a bit flat for me.

I LOVED the dwarf's jousting! The war of five kings... that's a lot more clever - and more insulting to the various houses, not just Tyrion - than what happened in the book. I thought that the difference in reactions was really well done: the Tyrells, Tyrion, Sansa and Varys were so mortified... whereas the rest of the Lannisters, and the other random guests, were having a great time.

I'm not sure about the show's decision to cast Grandma Tyrell as the real culprit behind Joff's murder. The long shot of her watching the wine cup that Joffrey put on the table, combined with her comment to Sansa about men being murdered at weddings really made it obvious that she had some part in it.... do you guys think that they will explain it by her having planned the whole thing with Littlefinger beforehand, to tie the story with what happens in the book? Or will Littlefinger's part be compeltely omitted? Personnally, I hope that Littlefinger is shown to have had some part... he is nowhere near slimy enough in the show, and now that our alpha-evil king is done for, we need another really bad guy!

Jess Lynde said...

I think they set up the culprits the same as in the book. As I remember it anyway. Olenna in league with Littlefinger via Dontos and Sansa. She was definitely fiddling with Sansa's necklace (the one given to her by Dontos) when making her little speech about dead grooms, which seems to be subbing in for the hairnet. Someone please correct me if I'm not remembering the book plot properly.

Mark Greig said...

You're right, Jess, Olenna was working with Littlefinger and it was a hairnet in the book.

annie auger said...

Thanks for the explanation Jess!
I knew I missed something... I re-read this part of the book today, you're right, it was Granny Tyrell with Littlefinger.

I read all 5 books in one long (long!) stretch last year, so the details are kind of blurry!

Jess Lynde said...

I don't think it matters how you read the series, it is still a lot to keep track of and lends itself to blurry details! :) The wikis at westeros.org are my constant friend with this thing.

Not that I really want any more time with Theon/Reek, but I'm starting to get curious about the pacing of his story and how it is unfolding. The stuff last year and at the beginning of 'The Lion and the Rose' mostly consisted of things we learned about after the fact in S5, but that may have occurred chronologically with the stuff we are seeing from the end of Book 3. But with them heading off for Moat Cailin now, it seems like they are pulling a good bit of story forward. I get the impression they are going to do that with Brienne's story, too, so we are now getting mostly the back half of Book 3, but also possibly bits of Book 4 and 5.

The current Shae situation has me ever more curious about how all that is going to play out. Is she really gone and safe? I doubt it. But is she an unwilling prisoner to be trotted out and murdered to hurt Tyrion? Or is she so wounded by his efforts to send her away that she's going to testify against him to hurt him back? Could still go either way. If it is the latter, I'm going to be disappointed, because I don't think they've effectively sold this as a rift between them. It requires Shae to be much more naive than she has been in the past.

Juliette said...

Tyrion and Shae is driving me insane and kind of ruining this season for me, but I guess that's because I had a rather extreme reaction to that plot in the book. It looks more and more like they're trying to drag it back to the book, but I think it's a big mistake if they are. Even if Shae were as mercenary as she is in the books, I suspect a TV audience would have major issues with their favourite character murdering his girlfriend onscreen (and by the way the real world timing is pretty unfortunate too). With Shae more sympathetic (even if she is a bit daft this season) it's even worse. I really hope they go with the Tywin-killing-her option because otherwise I think the audience and popularity of the show will take a real hit, much more than with the Red Wedding.

Kelly said...

Juliette, they've got me really wondering about Shae and Tyrion this season too. I too hope it turns out that Tywin killed Shae, and that knowledge plus Jaime finally revealing the truth about Tyrion's long ago wife (he better still do that!) will enrage Tyrion into patricide. It just makes the most sense out of all the options here, because I agree they haven't sold her naivete (why would she repeatedly refuse to leave?) or their breakup (it's obvious after he told her to leave 42352352 times that this breakup is him pushing her away to safety).

I'm thinking (hoping) the betrayal here instead will be Bronn selling out to Tywin. While not completely unexpected, it would still shatter Tyrion, particularly if it got Shae killed.

P.S. Sunbunny, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking about Tyrion's disappearing scars!

Josie Kafka said...

Comment on "Breaker of Chains"

Wow, I'm glad I'm not on the docket for reviewing this episode. I absolutely do not understand why they chose to portray the Jaime/Cersei scene as a rape. Because it clearly is a rape: Cesei says "no" numerous times, Jaime disregards her, and takes her by force as she struggles.

Oh, wait..what's that? Hmm? Director Alex Graves doesn't think that was a rape scene. Sex "becomes consensual by the end because anything for them ultimately results in a turn-on, especially a power struggle," he told Alan Sepinwall. If she's still "power-struggling," Graves, it's rape.

In that same interview, Graves discusses the difficult mechanics of the scene, as Jaime only had one hand. I can't help but think that "Hey, it's hard to hold her down with only one hand!" might have been a clue for someone, anyone, to chime in with "Hey, if holding someone down is a thing, it's rape!"

According to Sepinwall, whose interview is about the entire episode, the issue of how to interpret this scene--or rather, the issue that the show tried to portray consensual sex and failed to do so--will be unaddressed this season, as the episodes are already filmed. As he points out, and as all of us readers of the book have surely thought by now, this scene might cause some problems for Jaime's character development over the rest of the season.

I'm curious to know how the rest of you feel about this. I'm going to choose to think of this as a terrible mistake at the creation level: this scene, as portrayed, is not canon in my mind. It can't be, if we are meant to like Jaime anymore, ever.

As far as the bigger issue--how a director could block, stage, film, and mastermind a rape scene without realizing what he's doing...well, can I just growl?

Josie Kafka said...

Oh, by the way, here's the link to the interview: http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-game-of-thrones-breaker-of-chains-uncle-deadly

sunbunny said...

Oh wow. If they don't think that was a rape scene…

I dutifully reread the altar scene last night and Cersei does try to push him off and says no but it is nowhere near that level of violence. People are upset for what this means for Jaime as a character and I can't help but feel it says more about D&D and the troubling culture we live in. GRRM isn't one to shy away from violence against women in his books, but D&D have introduced far more in the name of sensationalism. It's an upsetting pattern and it really needs to stop.

Jess Lynde said...

After pondering it some today, I completely understand why people interpreted the scene as a rape, but that's not how I took it when watching last night. I honestly think I was so distracted by how awkward that scene must have been for Jack Gleeson, that I was cringing away from it a bit and not paying close attention. And since I knew that in the book it was ultimately consensual, despite Cersei's initial protests, I just walked away from it feeling like it was another squicky Jaime-Cersei sex scene, not a rape (even though I did mentally note that they had her protest a bit more than I remembered).

But after comparing the differences between book and screen some more, I see why others read what was in the show very differently. If they didn't intend it to read as a rape, I wonder why they made the changes they did? What a weird decision.

Josie Kafka said...

Oh, another great line from the interview I linked to above, this one from Sepinwall himself:

While his sister/lover mourns the death of their monstrous son, Jaime in turn seizes the moment to finally perform the act he's been denied of [sic] since the war with the North began, even if he has to get very rough at first to get what he want [sic]. It's an intense scene, and beautifully shot (just look at the glow surrounding Cersei after she's left alone in the sept with Jaime), and rekindles the sick, complex relationship between these two — an unholy union in the holiest of places.

"The act he's been denied...he has to get very rough to get what he wants."

Jess Lynde said...

Apparently some interviews with the writers reveal that they did view the scene as a rape, even if the director didn't (or maybe did, there are some conflicting interviews apparently). In that case, I have the same questions as Josie. Why take a consensual sex scene --- a really skeezy one, granted --- and turn it into a rape scene? What does this do to Jaime's and Cersei's character development? It's a very, very perplexing adaptation choice.

Anonymous said...

I had heard a spoiler about this a while ago and was very much hoping it wasn't Aside from the obvious disturbing content, it changes both of their characters so much. It makes him just another bad guy and her just another grieving mother. For now at least, it simplifies things, and makes both of them much less interesting.

I also read an article earlier (I can't find it again), that pointed out that this is not the first time they've done this, meaning the first sex scene between Drogo and Dany. So, it's a trend. A rapey trend. Fun! (/sarcasm font, even though it's probably obvious, because typing that made me feel squicky.)

Mark Greig said...

I always viewed the sept scene as rape. Jaime forces himself on Cersei and she does resist and objects, which Jaime doesn't listen to to. We only ever see this scene from his POV, never her's. We are reading about a sexual assault from the perspective of the attacker, so what Jaime may interpret as Cersei consenting may just be her deciding to stop resisting in order to get the whole ordeal over with more quickly.

Colin Peabody-Verteuil said...

Anonymous, I think this is the (very good) article you were talking about :
http://www.avclub.com/article/rape-thrones-203499

And I was actually quite pissed off by the change. In the books, to me, Cersei's rejection was always about the place they were in : the sept, in front of Joff's corpse. Making it a straight-up rape is terrifying, not only for the characters, but also for readers. It's on par with making Ramsay into a giggling psycho with a girlfriend played by sexy Iwan. It does not make sense, it humanizes what must not be, and the rape scene dehumanizes what was not.

TheShadowKnows said...

The rape (or quasi-rape) scene didn't really bother me because I regard Jamie as scum. True, he was unfairly maligned for killing a king who was planning to burn everyone in King's Landing alive. But he could have spent the last couple decades humbly trying to redeem himself. Instead he spent them being a jerk to everybody and having sex with his sister. Oh, and he threw a ten year old kid out a window. He is scum, so rape from him doesn't surprise me at all.

That said, in my opinion an attempt has been made to make TV Cersei at least a little more sympathetic than she is in the books. Having Jamie rape her (instead of semi-raping her, as in the book) may be another aspect of that.

Juliette said...

I haven't even watched this episode yet because I read about this several weeks ago and I'm putting it off (much as there are certain episodes of BtVS and VD I don't watch and a scene in the TB books I skim-read - maybe I'll put the kettle on during that scene). All I can say is - whatever happens with Tyrion and Shae may yet not be the worst creative decision this season. I think my GoT DVD collection may stop at season 3 (though I will of course continue to watch because I am a masochist).

Juliette said...

I've now watched the minute and a half of that scene (will watch the episode tomorrow). I find myself wishing I hadn't read about it weeks ago on Tumblr, or had to wait days before seeing it (though am very glad I didn't make my parents watch it) as I wonder if I would have reacted similarly to Jess (excellent point about poor Jack Gleeson!). But however you view it, it's unnecessarily violent I think. I will be doing my patented 'we'll just pretend that didn't happen'...

Morgan India said...

Changing the subject, can we just talk about the super subtle introduction to Hizdahr zo Loraq (the Lenny Kravitz lookalike)? But honestly if it came down to it I would always go with Daario. Sunbunny knows how I feel about new Daario. It almost makes me want to reread ADWD. Almost.

Also, I really like how faithful they were with the Sansa/Dontos/Littlefinger scene. Although the Sansa/Dontos shippers on Tumblr made me feel a bit icky. But I cannot wait to see Sansa turn into Alayne Stone and have a bit more agency than she had in KL.

Logan Cox said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Juliette said...

Morgan, yes, I loved that! I'd never have noticed if I didn't know Joel Fry from Twenty Twelve and Plebs, but that was great (and I'm fascinated to see him in such a different role!)

The Scarecrow said...

I think the changes in episode 4 gonna require a seprate fourm.
I was fine with the plot they added with the character that cutted off jaimes hand... But after the freaking spoiler in the last scene im wondering if this plot is heading to spoil anything else for us book readers. I dont like this direction.

Josie Kafka said...

Since this spoiler thread is restricted to material published in all of the books so far, I won't tell you about the contents of this link. I will just tell you that if you want some more info on the scene at the end of "Oathkeeper," check this out: http://io9.com/this-accidental-game-of-thrones-spoiler-just-changed-1568796246

Morgan India said...

I know a lot of people had a problem with all the small changes in the show (ultimately making bigger changes) but I still think that the show is being faithful to the books (to a point) while also being an adaptation.

I also really liked that Lysa was not as stupid as she is in the books. She knew Sansa was Sansa right away and I rather liked that. Lysa may be as mad as a cut snake but she isn't stupid. She's survived this long (but not for much longer?) mostly by LF's tutelage, but still.

I wasn't expecting Locke to die but I thought it was good that he did. Shame, I like Noah Taylor. And putting an end to the mutineers was also a good thing. Although I will miss seeing Owen Harper being batshit crazy.

I also really liked the Cersei/Margaery exchange. Cersei appealed to Mace Tyrell (via Margaery) in the hopes of swaying his verdict as one of the judges at Tyrion's trial. And she did the same with Tywin and Oberyn. And Lena and Pedro's chemistry just bleeds through Cersei and Oberyn's scene this week. No wonder people think they're together.

sunbunny said...

I'd love to know the reasoning behind making "Alayne Stone" Littlefinger's niece instead of his daughter.

I love Oberyn Martell and I hate knowing he's going to die. :(

Juliette said...

Morgan, I had totally missed that that was what Cersei was doing! I wondered why she was well inclined towards Margaery all of a sudden.

I thought it was a real shame they made Alayne Petyr's 'niece' - her pretending to be his daughter somehow upped the creepy factor to 11. Not that behaving that way towards a pretend niece isn't creepy too, but still.

Anonymous said...

So I'm just going to say it. I don't like this season. I won't say the last two episodes were bad, but they were pretty boring. I don't mind changes from the book, but some of the ones they're making are baffling. Who is this bizarre new, sympathetic Cersei? Where are they going with this? Why the rapeyness? I get rape as a plot device, I get that it's meant to reflect reality, but in every episode? And with no exploration of the complexities and consequences?

They seem to have got a bit full of themselves and be overreaching.

Juliette said...

Interesting that Dany's story is now getting well into Book 5 material - I wonder how they'll stretch it out over the next season and a half? Mind you, there's still all the Jorah revelations to come - I noticed we were reminded that he used to spy on her in the latest episode - so I guess that'll halt the Book 5 stuff a bit. Reek is well into Book 4 too, and Brienne - the Starks and Lannisters are getting behind!

Samantha Gomes said...

Juliette, let's not forget Book 4 and the first half of Book 5 take place at the same time, so, it's understandable why we're getting pieces of book 5 along with Book 4.
I love and hate Tyrion's trial scenes. It makes me hate Shae even more than I did when I read the book, and makes me love Tyrion more. And poor him, the worst is yet to come.

Juliette said...

I was so confused when Sansa told Littlefinger's accusers who she was! Loved her dramatic entrance at the end though.

TheShadowKnows said...

Cripes, so Stannis (probably) isn't going to make it to the wall until next season? They're really dragging out those storylines, in my opinion.

Mark Greig said...

Judging by the promo for the finale, Stannis and his army will attack the Wildings and that is probably how the Wall storyline will end this season. Jon becoming Lord Commander is likely going to held over until next season.

Juliette said...

I'd hoped Jon would become Lord Commander in the finale, to match Robb becoming King in the North in season one :( They're going to have to give up on waiting for GRRM and crack on with these storylines soon or everything will grind to a halt.

TheShadowKnows said...

"Judging by the promo for the finale, Stannis and his army will attack the Wildings and that is probably how the Wall storyline will end this season."

Thanks, I hadn't seen that yet. Good to know. Not that Stannis is my favorite character or anything (is he really anybody's favorite character?) but they need to get him to the Wall so that storyline can actually progress next year.

Mark Greig said...

I like Stannis.

*sound of crickets*

I'll get me coat.

Bea said...

Hey! I love Stannis, ok?

sunbunny said...

We have a LOT to do in the finale, don't we? Stannis showing up at the Wall, Tywin and Shae, and are we going to get the Lady Stoneheart reveal?

Josie Kafka said...

Happy Father's Day, everyone!

sunbunny said...

So Tyrion's never going to learn the truth about Tysha? Who is left to tell him? Also no Lady Stoneheart :( I really can't believe they didn't end it on that. It would have been such a great cliffhanger. As it was the episode just sort of…ended.

Josie Kafka said...

Yeah, I guess Tyrion never will know. That must be one of the things the show just cut/changed.

I was really expecting Lady Stoneheart, too. But this season did set the precedent for Big Events in episodes other than the ninth, so maybe Lady Stoneheart will happen in the season premiere to really play up the zombie theme.

Book readers, do you remember the Children of the Forest shooting fireballs out of their hands? I don't remember that.

Morgan India said...

I honestly think the season did what the season set out to do. It was the season of Lannisters with Joffrey and Tywin and everything, and with everything happening at the wall. Tywin dying and Stannis turning up at the Wall were really the only things I really wanted for the finale, so overall I am rather happy with the entire season. The changes have made the series extend a little further than the books, which I really like.

Sad, but understandable, to see Jojen go. I'm going to assume that the reason why they killed Jojen off now rather than sometime in season five is because Thomas Sangster is contractually obligated to the Maze Runner series now, and Jojen sort of just drifts off and disappears towards the end.

And Stannis was awesome and I'm so glad they're going to be delving into Jon's ADWD storyline.

But devastated that they showed Grenn and Pyp's bodies on the pyre.

Overall, I give this season a solid 7.5 out of 10.
There was simply not enough Joffrey for my taste.

Josie Kafka said...

Stannis's gigantic army of horses was insanely awesome. That was so many horses. That was like a Crusade-number of horses, and for the first time ever, Stannis was exciting.

(Yes, I know that they were probably CGI horses. I'm just amazed at how much money the Iron Bank must have given Stannis. I guess re-fi rates are at a historic low in Westeros.)

Josie Kafka said...

Oh, wow. HBO did a Father's-Day themed commercial for tonight's episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgwqIyWKdUI

Mark Greig said...

According to the director of the finale, Lady Stoneheart was never on the cards for this season. Seems they're holding back on introducing her until they can figure out how she will fit in. I was disappointed we didn't get a Stoneheart appearance in the finale, but now that I think about it it was probably for the best considering how little material there is with Stoneheart in the books. Reintroducing Catelyn in the finale and then not show her again until probably near the end of season 5 would be incredibly frustrating for a lot of views.

I'm curious to know what they're going to do with Varys. I always figured he remained in King's Landing using one of his many alias. But they show him making the last minute decision to get on the boat to Pento with Tyrion. Is he going to accompany Tyrion on that long, boring, seemingly never ending river cruise? That way they could have Varys reveal the details of Young Griff's true identity. Maybe they're replace Jon Connington with Varys. It would save them from having to introduce yet another new character. The alternative isd Tyrion and Varys part ways when they get to Pentos and we don't see Varys again until, I'm guessing, season 6.

TheShadowKnows said...

"Book readers, do you remember the Children of the Forest shooting fireballs out of their hands?"

I thought she(?) was throwing bombs of some kind.

Anonymous said...

I love that they managed to shock even book readers, though I was sad to see Jojen go. I guess this gives a bit more weight to the whole "Jojen Paste" theory, though!

Josie Kafka said...

TheShadowKnows, that's what I thought at first, but it looked to me that the Child produced a fireball from nowhere as they entered the mouth of the cave.

Juliette said...

That was by far my least favourite season but at least Oberyn was awesome, and I really genuinely thought episode 2 was great. I miss Joffrey!

Fingers crossed for more Tyrells next year, and for at least Gendry to reappear, if not Osha and Rickon as well. And Stoneheart will have to appear next year as Brienne has completely run out of story without her!