tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post4332479650793292491..comments2024-03-28T05:50:51.675-04:00Comments on Doux Reviews: Fringe: Johari WindowBillie Douxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17141769005175631213noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-32421427881942800252011-10-21T16:06:27.468-04:002011-10-21T16:06:27.468-04:00Interesting discussion. I lean more towards Dimit...Interesting discussion. I lean more towards Dimitri's take that it was all about perception. Particularly given the last line, which was the highlight of the episode for me. Even while accepting Peter's compliment, John Noble very effectively conveyed Walter's underlying shame regarding his past spent turning people into freaks. Not the strongest episode, but nothing that inspired a viscerally negative reaction in me.Jess Lyndehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14165015932507376656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-75437377988718867092011-07-24T20:51:43.362-04:002011-07-24T20:51:43.362-04:00Patryk beat me to the best comment -- that they na...Patryk beat me to the best comment -- that they named a library after Captain Jack. :) It wasn't a great episode; it was another forgettable standalone, and I've long since realized that the standalone <i>Fringe</i> episodes are, for me, like standalone <i>X-Files</i> episodes: they are not why I've continued watching. I do get why you really hated this one, Josie, although I didn't have the same reaction.Billie Douxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17141769005175631213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-42427145935510509242011-07-22T17:49:48.509-04:002011-07-22T17:49:48.509-04:00Yeah, I can see your point, Josie, but I wasn'...Yeah, I can see your point, Josie, but I wasn't so bothered with it. As moonspinner said, I don't think the pulse was causing the deformities anymore (Walter said Rose's father found a way to correct it).<br /><br />Anyway, weak episode (no more standalones, please), and the reveal of the whole town being deformed was predictable, but for a minute there I was hoping this would all result in another revelation from Captain Harkness dark past.Cesarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-19379037154616984692011-01-16T16:35:52.430-05:002011-01-16T16:35:52.430-05:00So they named a library after Captain Jack. :)So they named a library after Captain Jack. :)Patrykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13662838711958747484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-49074994312072323562010-10-26T16:18:43.461-04:002010-10-26T16:18:43.461-04:00Having just watched this episode on my DVD, I have...Having just watched this episode on my DVD, I have a few comments:<br /><br />the electro-magnetism pulse that caused the deformity is entirely different from the pulse that altered people's optical perception and made the deformed people appear normal. Rose's son inherited the deformity from his mother - it became genetic with subsequent generations inheriting it from their parents who were exposed to the deformative pulse. Meanwhile, Rose's father was never deformed but he remained in Edina because of his daughter whom he loved.<br /><br />Astrid'd reaction to the moth is just the same as someone else's reaction to spiders or bugs. Some people just don't like certain animals. It had nothing to do with the deformed wing and she never commented on that. She thought Walter had played a cruel joke on her the same way someone else might probably feel if they were given a present of a spider. At no time does Astrid call the moth ugly.moonspinnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03156556341588649710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-15220746851991281472010-01-19T00:21:14.895-05:002010-01-19T00:21:14.895-05:00I agree, as usual, Gustavo. Reading these comments...I agree, as usual, Gustavo. Reading these comments has definitely made the episode worth it!<br /><br />A few of my favorite bits:<br /><br />Gustavo, you were spot-on when you said that these standalones are forgettable; I was just looking at the list of Season Two episodes the other day, and I had a weird out-of-body experience: "Did I review those? Me?"<br /><br />Trousers, you've raised a good point about the moth: if it were a scorpion, I would have thrown it back into Walter's face. (Childhood trauma.) <br /><br />Dmitri, I like your alternate thesis. I'm not 100% sure I agree, but I really want to, and you've made a solid argument.Josie Kafkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17892717530356699008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-49125225086138946052010-01-18T22:10:37.980-05:002010-01-18T22:10:37.980-05:00Wow, I don't think I've ever seen such dif...Wow, I don't think I've ever seen such different yet well-thought and sensible opinions on an episode. You may have hated, Josie, but you have to admit it has at least generated a good discussionGustavo Brunettinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-57296740979693809762010-01-18T14:37:41.755-05:002010-01-18T14:37:41.755-05:00Interesting thoughts, Josie. Just so you know, I f...Interesting thoughts, Josie. Just so you know, I fully expect some kind of award for longest. Comment. Ever:<br /><br />Astrid’s reaction was indeed preposterous, although not unheard of: I know a number of so-called animal lovers who would sooner squash an ugly rat with a blunt object than let it near their puppy-shaped slippers. At any rate, I can certainly understand your outrage.<br /><br />However, I actually understood the message of the episode quite differently. For me, it was all about how the way people perceive us shapes who we are:<br />--The malformed boy was being treated like a monster by the cops. Then some malformed adults, who presumably got treated the same way at some point in their lives, behaved like monsters and killed everyone.<br />--Olivia’s conversation with Peter was about how she’s feeling less and less like a normal person even though nothing has changed in her attitude, only in the way others perceive her.<br />--And the final line, which I always consider the most important, involves Walter, who was once a moral monster, thanking Peter for perceiving him as a better man, thus encouraging him to become one. Also, I think that, since Peter called Walter brave, we’re meant to understand Walter will be able to get over his trauma with more ease now.<br /><br />So while I agree with you that the writers are setting a very definite and insensitive line between normal and freakish, I don’t think it’s meant as a moral imperative. I think the prejudicial line is presented as an admittedly cynical take on human nature. The moral is this: For better or for worse, how we see people affects who they are, so if we keep treating “freaks” like “freaks”, we can’t expect them to behave any differently.<br /><br />It’s not a very PC lesson, to be sure, but I think the writers’ cynicism holds a certain degree of truth: at school, ostracized “nerds” often become increasingly awkward socially, and, as a visible minority who grew up in a small town, I can tell you with confidence the way people treated me has shaped a little bit of who I am. By the same token, research shows that pretty people are indeed more likely to succeed because of the way people treat them.<br /><br />It’s also worth noting that the writers don’t condone the townspeople’s actions. All the murderers were taken out, as Broyles points out, and the episode makes it clear that the people of Edena had another, valid option. At the end, the boy who ran from home is still hanging at the edge of town. It’s clear part of him wants to do the brave thing and take his chances out there instead of hiding in the perception-altering zone or, to emphasize the metaphor, locking himself in the car like Walter.<br /><br />Most movies and TV shows address the question of looks and prejudice by saying, “Everybody can be beautiful in the inside, and that’s what matters.” Fringe, I think, is taking a more complex approach, acknowledging that human beings, in fact, don’t treat people as if what’s inside mattered, and that can have disastrous consequences.<br /><br />The heart of the message, though, I think is the same:<br />A) We need to treat people that are different better because it really does have an impact on their lives.<br />B) If you’re one of the “freaks”, hiding from the prejudice will guarantee that you will continue to be a “freak” or, rather, be perceived as a “freak” outside your safe zone.<br />C) Ultimately, it’s your choice. If you want to stay in the closet, no one else has the right to out you. (That’s why, I think, Fringe Division kept their secret.)<br /><br />In the end, for me, it’s all about Peter treating his strange father as a good man, and Walter slowly becoming that good man for it: “I am glad that you choose to see me the way you do, Peter.”Dimitrihttp://www.thedreamersedge.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-55517536499020959002010-01-18T13:46:49.687-05:002010-01-18T13:46:49.687-05:00I can't say that this one bothered me particul...I can't say that this one bothered me particularly. I did notice at one point that Peter called one of the residents of Edina "it" and found that odd, but then forgot about. I was probably far too busy finding it strange that neither the boy or his mother seemed particularly fussed that their father/husband had been shot and killed.<br /><br />I found your reaction to the Astrid/Moth scene quite interesting as I remembered it differently to you. She does have a fairly unpleasant reaction to the moth, but I'd probably have had the same. I hate moths, hate the way that they seem to disintegrate if they so much as touch you. Most people have some kind of creature that they dislike, spiders etc, with Astrid and me its moths. So I found that understandable.<br /><br />I've just rewatched that scene to see what you found so unpleasant about Astrids reaction. Astrid doesn't actually notice the moths deformity, she basically just goes "Ick, moth, you know I hate moths" and hands the jar to Walter. Its Walter who notices the deformity, and while he's mentioning it, Astrid opens the body bag and has an adverse reaction to the deformed head she sees staring back at her. Which, I think is understandable if you're expecting to see someone normal looking in there.<br /><br />Its possible that without remembering that scene the way you did, you might not have found the rest of the episode quite as offensive. Its equally possible that I just missed some of the worst dialogue exchanges, the episode as a whole bored me senseless and I caught myself daydreaming a few times. As with you, I'm interested to see what others think.Trousershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01176781987763125088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-9113665432935305442010-01-18T13:38:36.772-05:002010-01-18T13:38:36.772-05:00Hi, Josie
I hadn't thought it was a particula...Hi, Josie<br /><br />I hadn't thought it was a particularly good episode, but after reading your review, I have to agree with you almost entirely. I t was a bad episode, a another standalone. I feel like I haven't watched Fringe for a long time, because these standalones, however good they may be, are soon forgotten. We don't really keep anything in our minds because we know we won't need this information in the future. I hope they get a deal like LOST and set an end date to the show so that things could move forward faster. This show has a lot of potential, but I don't see it fulfilled.<br /><br />Regarding your comment about people from Edina being moral monsters, I seem to remember that the decision of killing people who knew or might come to know their secret was the sheriff's, and Rose's husband just went along with it. If you think about it, all the really responsible were dead by the end of the episode, so I don't think there was reason to hold all the population accountable. A people in its entirety shouldn't be responsible for all the crimes of its authorities.Gustavo Brunettinoreply@blogger.com