tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post484931828733748800..comments2024-03-28T10:18:52.493-04:00Comments on Doux Reviews: Gotham: "Don't Ever Grow Up"Billie Douxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17141769005175631213noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-4509899027519796572016-05-08T23:15:00.704-04:002016-05-08T23:15:00.704-04:00Totally agree with this article. Gotham and its ch...Totally agree with this article. Gotham and its characters are dark... It seems right that they show Bruce's evolution from innocent kid to a tragic crusader.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04573888666468843178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-79629282054601044452016-04-23T21:51:42.701-04:002016-04-23T21:51:42.701-04:00FOX as a network is a dumpster fire. I've hear...<i>FOX as a network is a dumpster fire.</i> I've heard a lot of negative descriptions of Fox, but honestly, Thomas, this might be my favorite. Billie Douxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17141769005175631213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-31543373718910695982016-04-23T16:21:53.493-04:002016-04-23T16:21:53.493-04:00J.D.: When it comes to Bruce's change in recen...J.D.: When it comes to Bruce's change in recent episodes, that's also part of the magic of David's acting. He's incredibly adept at conveying emotions with subtle facial shifts, posture, etc. I think this is because his first major role was as the autistic child co-star in "Touch" when he was 10 years old, acting with Kiefer Sutherland. During that entire show he never said a word. I'd think that was an excellent acting school.<br /><br />I agree that the comparison between Supernatural and Gotham isn't perfect for the reasons you pointed out. That said, as I mentioned, being "formulaic" isn't necessarily a bad thing. Supernatural has survived for over a decade precisely because it's got a strong formula - "Sam and Dean fight monsters." That isn't even a formula that prevents arcs or character growth. <br /><br />If I'd make the distinction, I'd say that Supernatural is a formulaic show employing multiple arcs (Lucifer, Leviathans, Darkness, you name it) while Gotham is an arc-centric show - "the rise of Bruce Wayne and the super-villains of Gotham City under the watch of Jim Gordon" - employing a formula ("Jim Gordon hunts criminals.") If we play with the thought of Gotham surviving into "true" Batman territory - we're talking season ~10 here - Gotham would shift into a formulaic show, "Batman hunts criminals", employing arcs.<br /><br />"What makes both shows special, is the fact that continuity and attention to detail are important. Characters are important. And in both shows, we have the opportunity to see those characters grow and change." <- Couldn't agree more.<br /><br />As for the survivability of Gotham we're practically guaranteed 4 seasons. After that it depends on how it pulls in the numbers (along with some other stuff), but the positive news is that it's FOX's second-rated scripted drama. The bad news is that FOX as a network is a dumpster fire.<br /><br />I'm sorry if the above rant was a bit unclear. ;-)Thomas Ijon Tichyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01401298696128080459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-37855923556317618122016-04-23T00:56:52.671-04:002016-04-23T00:56:52.671-04:00In the most recent episode, there was a moment whe...In the most recent episode, there was a moment where Bruce was Batman, leading the charge and acting like his future self. More so than I think I've seen him behave before. It wasn't fully realized of course, but in that simple change of posture, a turn and a walk towards the camera in just the right way, I saw something for the character I hadn't expected to see for a long time. It made me excited about the next few seasons (if we get that many), as this Bruce matures into the hero he will end up being. I did like your analysis too, there were a few points that I'd never considered.<br /><br />Great read.<br /><br />I do have one small issue, and that is the way you framed the comparison between the arcs of Supernatural and Gotham is a bit unfair. Your taking an original character (Sam Winchester) whose fate is still unknown, and creating parallels to an adapted character (Bruce Wayne) whose fate is well known. <br /><br />Yes, Sam grew up as a hunter and will probably die as one. But in his younger years, he wanted nothing but to escape from the life. Supernatural is not exactly formulaic, well at least not all the time. The filler episodes are for sure, but so are Gotham's filler episodes. Gotham is after all a very serialized and stylized version of a police procedural set in the Batman universe. What makes both shows special, is the fact that continuity and attention to detail are important. Characters are important. And in both shows, we have the opportunity to see those characters grow and change. The main difference, is that Gotham is a prequel, where we know where are main characters are headed.<br /><br />Samantha M. Quinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02340568293992559934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-69195438939916890682016-04-22T13:24:15.451-04:002016-04-22T13:24:15.451-04:00I probably went into the show with too high of exp...I probably went into the show with too high of expectations. I was expecting something like The Wire meets the Batman universe. The show felt like it would be better served if it were like a Netflix show with 13 episodes instead of over 20.<br /><br />I can't say it's not entertaining, though. Cobblepot and Nygma are an easy excuse for me to watch it. I like that Cobblepot has a weird ability to sense people who play a huge part in his future, like how he latched onto Gordon, the way he knew Nygma was watching him when they first met, and how he visibly went cold when Bruce passed him by while his back was turned.Logan Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04927158558530539708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-81513686723630632172016-04-22T06:43:45.082-04:002016-04-22T06:43:45.082-04:00Logan, that's the best compliment I could poss...Logan, that's the best compliment I could possibly get. If I manage to convince anyone, especially one who's previously given up, to give the show a first or second chance, I'm very happy.<br /><br />The point about the portrayals of Bruce and Selina... the major reason it works... is that the show doesn't make the mistake of writing them either as mini-adult or as overgrown toddlers. Both Bruce and Selina have "childish" tendencies to go with their "grown-up" ones. "All the water hasn't boiled yet", so to speak.<br /><br />A key to enjoying Gotham is understanding how the show sometimes goes for intentional over-acting, a cartoonish feel and a simplistic superficial package masking the gears turning under the hood. It's an easy show to make smart-alecky comments about but most of those just expose how the viewer hasn't bothered trying to understand the narrative. That's not to say the show is flawless, of course. I'm currently noticing a downward trend in quality and hoping it will pick back up.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm very glad you enjoy the coverage. ;-)Thomas Ijon Tichyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01401298696128080459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13727952.post-83049495448098293592016-04-21T23:30:58.004-04:002016-04-21T23:30:58.004-04:00I stuck with Gotham all through season one and dec...I stuck with Gotham all through season one and decided I was probably done with it; maybe I'd check out the very next when season two came to Netflix. However, I have read your analyses, and occasionally a review. They seem well-written and well thought out, but I think I read because I find it interesting how much you see in this show. And how much you seem to appreciate what you see.<br /><br />So you've changed my opinion to the point where I've decided to give season two a chance when it is available to me. Even though I still don't think this is my thing, as much as I love the Batman mythos.<br /><br />Cool to read about dialectical shifts here when I just learned about Hegelian dialectics from Fallout: New Vegas recently. I also like that you used one of my favorite moments from the first season ("Well, I am Bruce Wayne.") to help illustrate this. Didn't see there what you saw, but then again I wasn't really reading much into it at the time. I took it like, "Yeah, Bruce knows people know what's up." Felt like he was being logical.<br /><br />My problem with the show isn't its themes or what it wants to do. The problem is how it chooses to do it. I didn't hate Batman v. Superman, but I think it is a good example of how a bunch of cool ideas and strong potential can fall flat in the face of poor execution. I can totally accept that kid characters like Bruce or Selina can be as mature as Gordon and Leslie... if it is done right. <br /><br />You make a good point in comparing David Mazouz on Gotham to Jared Padelecki on Supernatural; so very true. I guess I sort of took that great casting for granted since I was convinced this show was going to fail fast.Logan Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04927158558530539708noreply@blogger.com