A Song of Ice and Fire: Who Will Live and Who Will Die? Discussion Thread

George RR Martin has said several times that one of the things he most wanted to do with A Song of Ice and Fire was make it unpredictable. He wanted to surprise readers, especially with character deaths, and in some cases he's succeeded beyond all expectation.

However, we at Doux Reviews choose to see this as a challenge! And so, here is a discussion thread for our wildest, craziest, kookiest predictions about who will live and who will die if Martin ever gets to the end of his Song of Ice and Fire (or if the TV show beats him to it). I'll set out my own guesses in the main post, then take it away in the comments!

N.B. This thread is a SPOILER-FREE-FOR-ALL. This is a discussion/predictions thread for the books, in which we may refer to the TV show as and when it's relevant. DO NOT enter this thread unless you've read ALL FIVE published books in the series AND seen all three seasons of the TV show (or you don't care about spoilers!). Some of us may have slightly different book/TV predictions - feel free to share those here. In the interest of accurate predicting, we may even allow comments made by George RR Martin or those involved with the TV show in interviews etc. (though a little spoiler warning on those would probably be the polite thing to do). If you're a spoiler-phobe, TURN BACK NOW! Otherwise, go crazy!

Juliette's Totally Accurate Predictions* for Who Will Live and Who Will Die in A Song of Ice and Fire

*may not be totally accurate

Starks (and one Lannister-by-marriage)

Eddard
Catelyn: will die again, finally, properly, at some point. We'd better be rid of her by the end of the series. She annoyed the heck out of me before she started persecuting my favourite characters.
Robb
Jon Snow: is not dead. He might warg into Ghost, Melisandre might zombie-fy him a la Beric Dondarrion, he might just not be fatally wounded (unlikely). My personal suspicion is that he'll temporarily warg into Ghost, then Melisandre will revive his recognizably Stark-related body (also, I've read Robin Hobb's books, as, I suspect, has GRRM). However it's accomplished, Jon is not dead as of the end of A Dance With Dragons. Whether he survives the whole series depends on how he's brought back - if he's a zombie, he'll eventually get finished off/warg off forever with Ghost, but if his body is salvageable, he may end up surviving and, just possibly, becoming King in the North (There are some very traditional fantasy tales buried deep in these books).
Sansa: is one of the characters whose fate is hardest to predict. If GRRM plans to kill off any more Starks, I'd say Sansa is the most likely. Her direwolf was the first casualty of the books, if she lives she's married to Tyrion and I don't see a Lannister ending up at Winterfell no matter how much we like him (though more on that below), and she's kind of annoying. On the other hand, much as I love my kick-ass heroines, it would be a bit weird if none of the more 'traditional' female characters survived. Hmm.
Arya: My fondest non-Jaime-related hope for the whole series is that Arya ends up married to Gendry and they are Lord and Lady of Winterfell. That would bring the whole series full circle - it was all kicked off by an attempt to marry Robert Baratheon's son to Ned Stark's daughter, and this way, poor Robert and Ned's plans would finally come to fruition. For that to happen, both Arya and Gendry have to be alive. It would also help if Arya used her name and her own face.
Bran: Will permanently warg in some way. Possibly into a crow, possibly a dragon, possibly a tree. (Hopefully not a tree). Human Bran will probably be 'dead,' but Bran's spirit will live on, possibly for a very long time.
Rickon: I have absolutely no idea where GRRM is going with Rickon. All I know is, he will turn up again at some point. He may or may not have become a cannibal. Or a unicorn.

Lannisters (and technical Baratheons)

Tywin
Cersei: has to die. Soon. Please.
Jaime: (excuse me a moment, I have something in my eye). Jaime has to die. (Sob!) Anyone who starts out the series by pushing a seven-year-old out of a window has to die, even in GRRM's cynical, horrible world. Narrative law demands it. The only question is how and when. So, my biggest hope of all for the entire series is two-fold; 1) I really, really hope Brienne doesn't kill Jaime, or somehow lead him to his death. This almost certainly means she will, of course. And 2) I hope Jaime dies somewhere near the end of the series. I want to keep him around as long as possible.
Tyrion: like his wife, hard to say - and partially dependent on said wife, because what happens to them and Rickon and Jon may determine what happens to Winterfell. I can't see Tyrion and Sansa still being married at the end of this series - that would make both of them utterly miserable. (When Tyrion first said he'd sleep with her when she wanted him to, I thought maybe that was what we were building up to, but it seems unlikely at this point). So, either one or the other of them has to die - or Tyrion has to find Tysha, alive, thus invalidating his marriage to Sansa. Which seems very, very unlikely - but on the other hand, this is a country the size of a continent where you can't walk five miles without bumping into someone who recognises you, so it's possible. And we all love Tyrion (GRRM included) so that might just be enough to keep him alive. And it would serve the ghost of Tywin right if Tyrion ended up in the still-unseen Casterly Rock after all.
Joffrey
Tommen and Myrcella: I really want these two to live, since they seem like such sweet kids (and I quite like some of the Lannisters, I don't actually want to see them wiped out completely). The prophecy made to Cersei seems to mark them out for death, though, and there's the problem of what to do with them once they've been kicked off the Iron Throne (they definitely won't stay on the throne). Perhaps Tommen might just survive, if he's taken away and disguised and given a new name. Since poor Myrcella is a bit recognisable due to lacking an ear (what on earth is GRRM's obsession with chopping bits off Lannisters?!) she'll probably have to go.
Kevan
Lancel: now that he's found religion, he'll probably get killed in some horrible and ironic way.

Actual Baratheons

Robert
Stannis: is probably not dead yet, but may be fairly soon. He can't end up ruling the Seven Kingdoms - he's the most boring man ever written - so he has to die at some point.
Stannis's annoying wife: don't know, don't really care.
Renly
Shireen: Like Rickon, I have no idea where GRRM is going with this one. Maybe she'll end up married to Rickon.
Gendry: See above re: Arya.
Mya Stone and Edric Storm: don't seem important enough to get killed off, but paradoxically are also not important enough to be safe. They may both get killed to leave Gendry as Robert's only surviving child.

Targaryens

Maester Aemon
Viserys
Daenerys: Will survive and have power of some kind. Whether that's the Iron Throne, the Iron Throne but only over the south of Westeros, or some part of Essos is hard to say - though my money's on Dany ruling from the Iron Throne in the south, with a separate but allied King (or Queen) in the north.
Possibly-Aegon: This depends partly on whether he really is Aegon Targaryen or not, but I suspect he'll have to die either way, to make way for Daenerys (if she's going to follow family tradition and marry a brother - which seems unlikely anyway - it won't be that brother. See The Internet's Favourite Fan Theory That's Probably Pretty Accurate (about a third of the way down the page)).

Tullys and Arryns

Hoster Tully
The Blackfish: will probably go down in a blaze of glory at some point.
Lysa Arryn
Robert 'Sweetrobin' Arryn: this depends largely on who ends up inheriting the Vale. He's annoying enough that if any more child characters are going to bite it, he's first in line.
Edmure: I quite like Edmure, for all his incompetence. He might survive to carry on the Tully line.
Edmure's baby: probably won't be returned to him via trebuchet. Probably.

Tyrells

Olenna: depends how long the war takes, and whether or not she's died of old age by the end of it. She'll probably survive.
Mace: I'd forgotten he existed. Dead.
Wilas: if we never meet him, he'll be fine. If he ever actually appears, he'll probably be killed instantly.
Loras: is not dead. Reports of his near-death are probably highly exaggerated.
Margaery: seems canny enough to survive. It really depends who ends up in power and whether she's able to twist them around her little finger.
That Other Tyrell Brother: no idea. He'll probably die.
There are way too many living Tyrells on this list. Some of them are going to have to go!

Greyjoys

Balon
Asha: Hard to say. She might live to rule the Iron Islands as a vassal or client king, if all her other relatives die.
Theon: I was really surprised he wasn't killed in A Clash of Kings. He's fairly expendable, but on the other hand, if Bran perma-wargs and Jaime and Myrcella die, plus Maester Aemon's already dead - well, it would be nice if not every disabled character got killed off. But maybe I should focus my attention on Davos Seaworth instead.
Victarion/Euron/Asha and Theon's mother/Asha's boyfriends/assorted relatives: No idea, I skipped all the Greyjoy chapters that weren't about Asha, and I skimmed hers. I hate them all and hope they all die horribly. They probably won't.

Everyone from Dorne

Don't know, don't care - I skipped/skimmed those chapters too!

Boltons and Freys

They will all die in a variety of horrible ways, except possibly Roslin Tully. Even GRRM knows we need some kind of satisfactory pay-off eventually.

Others

Brienne of Tarth: her fate pretty much depends on how it all goes down between her, zombie-Catelyn and Jaime. If she's forced to kill Jaime, or somehow cause his death, she'll probably find some way to commit suicide-by-knight or something. If not, she'll probably witness his eventual horrible death and go off and be a lonely wandering knight for the rest of her life. I'd love it if awesome things happened for Brienne, because I love her - I just don't think they're going to.
Davos Seaworth: I like Davos, and he's already had a fakeout-death (which I suspect fooled no-one). He might live, especially if Stannis, Melisandre, Shireen, Stannis' wife etc. etc. etc. all die (he could end up ruling Dragonstone).
Jorah Mormont: I love Ser Jorah, but he'll die protecting/saving/helping Daenerys at some point. Or trying to and failing horribly. Love hurts.
Barristan Selmy: will be killed during the final battle/dragon attack/fight against zombies/whatever on earth all this is leading up to, helping to secure Dany's position in the process.
Daario Naharis: I don't know what's going on with him, but Dany won't end up married to him, so he'll probably die.
Dany's random husband in Meereen: will die soon, obviously, for trying to poison her.
Strong Belwas: has proved himself pretty strong, and might live.
Grey Worm: like Ser Jorah and Ser Barristan, will probably die for Dany.
Missandei: Dany's handmaidens do not have a good survival rate, but Missandei might just make it.
Randyll Tarly: too horrible to live. Maybe Brienne will kill him. I don't know why, it would just be cool.
Samwell Tarly: is the character most clearly named after/perhaps partially inspired by another character (Samwise Gamgee). He'll be fine.
Gilly: will marry Sam (I'm not convinced the Night's Watch is going to survive this series, at least not in its present form) and they will have 13 children. Called Elanor, Frodo, Merry, Pippin....
Gilly's baby: had better live, after all the trouble everyone's gone to.
Mance Rayder: I doubt he'll survive the series, though he may last a bit longer.
Mance Rayder's baby: see above re: Gilly's baby.
Tormund Giantsbane: will probably survive and end up the most powerful leader north of the Wall.
Pip, Grenn and Dolorous Edd: it would be nice if they lived. Dolorous Edd probably will, since it would surprise him so much. The other two will almost certainly die, to show that the situation is serious.
Jeyne Poole: I think this poor girl is doomed. She may seem safe for now, but there's only room for one Arya Stark in the world...
Jeyne Westerling: will probably get randomly killed off-page at some point, just to raise the body count and tie up dangling Red Wedding-related plot threads.
Meera Reed: will probably die protecting her brother and/or Bran.
Jojen Reed: is the already half-dead character I think is most likely to actually die before the end of the series.
Howland Reed: will probably show up at the end, deliver a bunch of exposition, then die.
Jon Connington: is already dying. He probably really is, though you never know.
'Coldhands,' a.k.a. Probably-Benjen-Stark: is already dead, technically. But what is dead may never die, after all. Of all the zombie characters (how awesome is it that this is a phrase we can use?!) he's probably the most likely to keep going in some form.
Melisandre: seems unlikely to survive. I sort of hope not, anyway, even she does save Jon. Some characters have to die, and I'd rather her than Jon, Arya, Tyrion, Dany, etc. etc. etc.
Thoros of Myr: dead. Somehow, somewhen.
Osha: may die protecting Rickon and/or Bran, though probably not for a while.
Littlefinger: if he doesn't get shoved out of the Moon Door (or similar terrible fate) by the end of the series, there's no justice in the world. Since there isn't any justice in this world, he'll probably be fine. As long as he doesn't end up on the Iron Throne... (Some have suggested Sansa will kill him - this sounds vaguely plausible, and would be awesome, but it's hard to see her reaching that point any time soon).
Varys: would probably survive the Flood. I don't understand Book-Varys, and I don't understand how his apparent Targaryen-agenda can possibly match up with TV-Varys' (much more interesting) desire to do what's best for the Realm. But he's a survivor, if nothing else.
Bronn: is too awesome to die.
Shae: is dead, obviously. But my most fervent non-Jaime-related hope for the TV series is that Tywin will kill her instead of Tyrion. She and Tyrion will probably spend the whole season keeping quiet to protect Sansa (since if I recall correctly, Shae was the one who put the hairnet-thing on her head) and poor Shae will end up dying for it somehow.
Podrick Payne: he'd better live, after Brienne went to all that trouble partially to save him (though I think Brienne has a pretty strong instinct for self-preservation as well).
Ilyn Payne: I really, really hope Arya gets to kill him. Most of her list have already been dispatched by other people...
Franken-Gregor Clegane: the Mountain will crumble in the wind.
Sandor Clegane: wherever he is, he's probably staying there. If he makes himself known again, he'll die.
Jaqen H'Ghar: a man is too cool and mysterious to die.
Hyle Hunt: has 'expendable ensign' written all over him.
Illyrio Mopatis: is not important enough to live.
The new High Septon: dead.
Wyman Manderly: will eat anyone who tries to kill him, so he might live. It depends what exactly is going on at Winterfell as of the end of A Dance with Dragons.
Penny: my goodness, she's annoying. If I want her to get horribly killed, am I a bad person?!
Hodor: Hodor.*
Hot Pie: as long as we never see him again, he'll be OK. If he ever turns up again, he's dead.

*(Gimme a break, this post was getting really long, was I really going to say anything else?!)

In memoriam: Jory, Syrio Forel (?), Septa Mordane, Khal Drogo, Yoren, Lommy Greenhands, Qhorin Halfhand, Maester Luwin, Jeor Mormont, Craster and a bunch of Night's Watchmen, Beric Dondarion, Beric Dondarion, Beric Dondarion... (x 4 more), TV-Talisa Maegyr, Greatjon Umber and practically everyone attached to the Starks, Oberyn Martell (the only interesting Martell), Ser Dontos, Ygritte, Amory Lorch and other assorted nasty people, The Lord o' Bones, that one dude who got killed in Dorne, Penny's brother, Quentyn Martell, Grand Maester Pycelle, a whole bunch of other characters I've forgotten...

What do you think? Who have I forgotten and should I really be paying more attention to the Greyjoys and the Martells?!

19 comments:

CrazyCris said...

May I suggest people refrain from starting their comments with a spoiler so it won't appear in the comments sidebar and ruin things for people not participating in this thread? ;o)

Oh my!!! You sure did put a lot of thought in this one Juliette!!!

I don't think I can say much, except that I gave up on predicting who lives or dies when Jon got stabbed (to death?) by his own "brothers". *sob* I really truly hope the Red Woman brings him back somehow!!!

But yeah, I don't see that new young Targaryen living long. After all we've grown to know and love Dany, there's no way GRRM is going to get us to root for another Targaryen! And she canm't be Queen (legally) if he's around. But I guess they could be Q&K together...

All I can say is HE'D BETTER NOT KILL OFF ARYA AND TYRION!!! grrrr... I want Arya to avenge her family and then end up with Gendry! But I don't see them as Lords of Winterfell, I think ultimately that will be Rickon. But how is he going to prove to the world he is who he says he is? Ditto Arya as herself?

So many things to think about... Too many characters to keep track of! I need to re-read it all again, more slowly this time! :p

Jess Lynde said...

Wow, Juliette. Wow. A very fun read. Even though it was all about death.

I had totally forgotten that Uncle Kevan got killed at the end of ADWD. I saw him crossed off on your list and thought, "What?!" Then I had to run to his character summary on the Wiki to find out what happened to him!

There are so many characters here to ponder. I love your comment about Sam being most obviously inspired by Samwise Gamgee, because I had two serious Lord of the Rings flashbacks this past week when characters were interacting with Sam (first Bran telling him had to go, and then Jon seeing him again). I truly hope Sam and Davos live. It would be wonderful to have some actual, genuinely good guys make it through alive.

Cersei cannot die until she has lost absolutely everything she cares about. That means Tommen and Myrcella have to die horrible deaths first, and Jaime has to be completely and totally lost to her (if he's not already). Once she has suffered mightily, then she can die. Or not. I'd be happy with "wallowing in freakish misery" for the rest of a very long life.

Jon cannot be dead. There are too many potential "outs" allowing him to continue surviving (as you note), and I'm a big proponent of the notion that he's one of the "heads" of the dragon, along with Dany (because of the theory re: his parentage) and someone else (I'm not sure yet who that will turn out to be). So he's got to continue on somehow. For awhile at least. I don't know that he necessarily survives the series, but he's not done yet.

I'm surprised so many people are attached to the Arya-Gendry pairing. I never gave those two a second thought. He's like a big brother! And I don't really expect "Arya" will survive this series. The girl might, but she'll never go back to being a Stark of Winterfell. (If she does, I look forward to seeing how that journey plays out.) I feel like she's got some other role to play here. I just don't have any idea what it is.

There's almost too many characters to really address every single one in a comment! So many characters I hope make it, that probably won't. So many that probably will make it, even though I wish them violent death. I suspect Varys will outlast them all. His original character nickname was probably "The Cockroach." :)

Mark Greig said...

All I want is for Sansa to be Queen in the North. That's it. Is that really too much to ask?

Juliette said...

I may have given it all a bit too much thought :)

I hadn't thought about the option of Cersei living miserably - but I'm pretty sure the prophecy referred to her being strangled (by her younger brother's golden hand/s, so my money's on Franken-Gregor using Jaime's golden hand, or possibly - ew - Jaime's actual hand, which Qyburn had last we saw it).

I'm hoping Arya, Tyrion, Jon and Dany survive, and I think they have the best chance (though Tyrion has gone to some dark places, and there's the Sansa problem). I'd be so happy if Jaime survived, but it's just not going to happen...

Jess Lynde said...

So the wording of the prophecy is: "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." And valonqar apparently translates as "little brother."

So no reference to golden hands. And Gregor Clegane isn't a little brother. I guess it could still be Jaime, if his fake hand still counts for "his hands" (plural). Tyrion's probably too obvious, since that's what Cersei fears. It either has to be Jaime or someone else's little brother. Jaime would probably be the worst for her. (And it would have a certain poetic quality.) But as long as she suffers mightily while shedding those drowning tears, I will be satisfied. :)

celticmarc said...

Wow Juliette, wow indeed.

I haven't read the books, do not intend to and will not speculate either. Sorry ! LOL Having fun already with reading your post(s) AND the comments.

Wow Juliette. (And SO many characters.)

Juliette said...

Silly me, I must have mixed up my prophecies! Maybe I was thinking of Shae or something.

I really, really hope Jaime doesn't kill Cersei. I barely got over Tyrion and Shae (and am desperate for the TV series to change that). I'd love it if Arya killed her, though that doesn't seem to fit.... I'll keep my fingers crossed for Franken-Gregor with Jaime's hand. Or Sandor maybe, he's a younger brother...

Samantha Gomes said...

Fantastic post. I will print that out and wait for the series to end.
I have always loved Tyrion, Jon, Dany and Arya, so I wish they all live. As for Varys, he has to stay! Littlefinger better die last, he is my current favourite villain, and I'd love to see Sansa kill him.
Great list, kuddos to you, Juliette!

nancy namaste said...

Fantastic post- the death count in the books is so high that I forgot about some of the deaths.

Personally I think that RRM is a sadist and that the rest of us are masochists. So, at the end - everybody dies. The Ice Monster things devastate the world and .....maybe a dragon or two survives.

Just call me either cynical or shell shocked by now.

Shannon said...

!!

Don't skip chapters! For shame!

Annie said...

Wow, that's a lot of characters that you've considered, I ponder quite a bit over what will become of everyone but usually just the main ones.

I really don't think Jon's dead, I think he's gone to Ghost and then Melisandre is going to bring back his body. However, because he never actually died he will be able to reclaim his revived body as himself, not a slave to the 'lord of light'. He might even be able to consider himself no longer bound to the Nights Watch oath.
I think that Jon is the main 'Ice' protagonist and Danerys is the'fire' in the title of the series and he'd leave a vacuum were he to be killed off at this point there's so much we need to learn about Jon, its too soon.

I'd been thinking Jaime would be the one to kill Cersei, but it might turn out to be a mercy killing. She's a bad bad woman and really has to die at some point. Maybe Jaime can die protecting Brienne.

I'm not sure about Tyrion, I really hope he survives, he certainly knows how to play the game well enough so hopefully he'll get through.

Ramsay Bolton has to die, please, he's just so chillingly evil.

I really hope Arya makes it her journey has been so hard, and she's changing so much, I worry that she'll end up lost to us. I really want her to be reunited with Jon at some point. I can't say I want her to marry Gendry, I don't really want her to marry anyone unless in an epilogue.

I think Sansa will survive but I don't see her being at Winterfell I agree that Rickon is the prime candidate for that, I worry that he might not be the wise ruler though Shaggy Dog is a liability!

Little finger could go either way, he's very slippery but absolutely deserves to die, he's got a lot to answer for.

I don't think Bran's going any farther than he has, he's not going to die but its unlikely he's going to see his siblings again.

Juliette said...

I hadn't thought about Bran maybe not seeing his family again. I really hope we get some kind of reunion between some Starks! At least between Arya and Jon, and hopefully Sansa too!

Annie said...

I guess Bran will be able to see them again with the power he has, but maybe they wont see him. I do hope that I'm wrong.
Jon and Arya reunion is the one I'm hoping for the most and I really hope its not a tragic reunion if it happens, that would be so cruel.

Anonymous said...

I want Tyrion, Arya and Dany to live. Sansa and Margery as well. Jon Snow should live also. Hmm..Varys might be a good candidate on grounds of smartness..Hope Littlefinger and the Boltons die.
Anna

Iago said...

If we're allowing for cross-pollination between the TV show and books, then Melisandre will die at the hands of Arya. Or at least I hope so. By the same token Edric Storm is dead too and all our theories about Jeyne Westerling are doomed and she's dead. To my mind there was a reason they were so emphatic in killing Talisa.

Victarion Greyjoy is headed for a confrontation with Dany. He will lose, which is a shame because I quite like Victarion. The other Greyjoys will all die save Asha, because Asha seems a consummate survivor.

The Blackfish will survive, Edmure won't and so the Blackfish will be lord of Riverrun once more. If he married the freshly-widowed Roslin Frey, that'd be pretty cool. The Tarleys are going to turn on the Tyrells (we're told every great House has dangerous/covetous vassals and the Tarleys are the Tyrell's) and Mace Tyrell will die. Hopefully so will Randall Tarley. Horribly. Margaery will survive, don't care about the others. Stannis probably has to die, though I he's probably my favourite person left in Westeros at the end of Dance.

I like the Martells: I think Arianne will survive and become Princess of Dorne. Her dad will die of old age and surely because of the number of them some of the Sand Snakes will die.

Varys will survive: he's too powerful to be killed. I'm very much hoping he gets to take out Littlefinger: proof that he's a far, far better player of the Game of Thrones than Littlefinger could ever hope to be.

Cersei's going to die, probably/hopefully at the hands of Tyrion, Myrcella is disposable and Tommen might just survive. Jaime will go out in a blaze of glory - it'd be poetic if it was defending Arya or (more likely) Sansa in front of Lady Stoneheart. Brienne will survive the same battle that ends Jaime. Tyrion will survive, going on to be Lord of Casterly Rock and one of the heads of the dragon. Sansa, seeing him wipe out her enemies and very rich/powerful, will be happy to be his wife.

The remaining Starks, Jon will come back and become the third dragons head, Bran will become one of the Children of the Forest and pivotal in beating back the White Walkers. I really can't see Arya having a happy ending though I hope she gets to take out her list before she goes out in a blaze of glory. As already mentioned, Sansa will survive. Rickon will become Lord of Winterfell with Osha protecting him.

Dany will survive, leading her dragons to defeat the White Walkers but leaving the throne to someone else. Jorah has looked like a doomed man since he fell in love with Dany but Barristan will live out his days as Lord Commander of the Queensguard. He'll kill Daario at the first opportunity, probably before he's reunited with Dany. Missandei will survive.

I confidently predict all of these predictions will be completely wrong.

Yane said...

Wow Juliette, that was fascinating to read. It's a shame though that you skipped the Greyjoy & Dorne chapters - whether we like it or not, they grew to be an important part of the plot, which will become more visible as soon as that characters meet the ones we've met before. I understand you though; it annoyed me that so much space was devoted to some new characters instead of the ones I knew and liked (or disliked, for that matter - simply the ones I cared about). I decided, however, that I love the series enough to embrace these circumstances ;)


As for my thoughts:

Jon is obviously not dead; Melisandre is close enough to revive him; she must have seen everything in the flames; she even warned him. Besides, as Jess wrote, he is possibly one of the heads of the dragon along with Dany and probably Aegon (I didn't delve into any theories enough to think that he'a a fake). Another interesting thing that may affect Jon's future is what people tend to forget about (it wasn't mentioned in the TV series either so maybe it's not as important as I deem it to be): The document that Robb wrote on his way to the wedding, in which he made Jon his heir. It was taken by the part of Jon's army that went to the North instead of The Twins, therefore there's a chance that it's somewhere safe. I don't know how such legal issues work in Westeros but if the document is eligible, it may mean that neither Sansa nor the Lannisters are going to rule Winterfell.

What's going to happen to Sansa then? I have no idea but I think she's going to survive. Is it very weird of me to hope that she ends up with Littlefinger? I hope he's not going to die either; isn't he clever enough to avoid getting killed?

Arya will probably finish her training and go kill someone in Westeros. If she gets a contract for someone she used to be closed (or alliance) to, I don't think she'll turn against them. We may see old Arya back, no matter how far from that she’ll have gotten. And maybe she gets to assassinate at least some of the people from her list. When it comes to her relations with Gendry, some romantic thoughts have crossed my mind once or twice (she noticed his shirtless, muscular body... if he was like a brother to her, she wouldn't have, right?). It would be totally unlike GRRM to let them get married and live a happily ever after though (and I believe that Arya wouldn't be able to, after all that happened). It's more probable that they will almost meet again sometime. GRRM likes almosts.

Bran is quite likely to remain where he is. Maybe he'll learn to communicate with others while using another form? Wasn't he able to whisper or something when he was a tree, after all?

Yane said...


Daenerys will probably live and rule although I wouldn't be very surprised if she followed into her father's footsteps and went crazy.

Jaime can't die at the end of his current travel with Brienne, because he has to come back to King's Landing to strangle Cersei. I hope that's what the prophecy meant; it would be so accurate.

As for Stannis... I believe he might be sacrificed by Melisandre as soon as she learns that he's not Azor Ahai after all... Well, that he may not be, but he's still a king and there's power in king's blood so he would make a hell of a sacrifice.

I thought that Sandor Clegane was dead already. Isn't he? Didn't Brienne see his dead body? (Or maybe Billie's 10th rule of television - Josie's law, actually - should be modified into "If you don't see the body, don't believe anyone is dead. Sometimes you shouldn't believe someone's dead even if you do see the body" - I know it's about TV not books but still.)

Additionally:

Jess, I also thought of LOTR twice during last episode, exactly in the same moments you mentioned. I was actually waiting for Sam to say "Mr. Frodo..." but for some reason he didn't.

Annie, I always associated the "ice" and "fire" from the title with the White Walkers and dragons, as they are probably going to be the most important figures in the final battle. But I guess that the title may be understood on many different levels and the Others/dragons and Jon/Dany are just two of the many options ;)


(I'm sorry for dividing my comment but the site wouldn't let me to publish it as one - is it really that long?)

Juliette said...

Iago, I love your final conclusion there :)

yane, I really hope Jaime doesn't kill cersei because I love him, but I really hate stories about people who kill their lovers, so I guess that's a personal thing. The tyrion/shae thing really, really bothered me. Goodness knows how grrm feels about it though!

Yane said...

Juliette, personally I didn't feel that bad for Shae in the book; I was much more sorry for Tyrion because of what she did. His killing her was his act of despair, no matter how cold-blooded it felt. That's why I'm really curious about the solution of their situation in the TV show. Shae is a lot more amiable than in the books and her and Tyrion's relationship seems much more profound. I wonder if they're going to make the climax faithful to the book. It wouldn't feel too natural... How else could it end though?

I cling to the thought of Jaime assassinating Cersei for several reasons.
Firstly, I'm very curious what would be his motives. That little dissonance they've had since his comeback to King's Landing doesn't seem enough. Will it be jealousy? A promise made to Lady Stoneheart? Or maybe something we don't expect? Jaime has changed a lot while Cersei haven't at all. I couldn't imagine them reuniting in any way.
Secondly, no matter how an intriguing character Cersei is, she deserves to die a painful death and this pain better be interior than physical. I won't even mind sacrificing Tommen and Myrcella to extend that pain; if that's true what the prophecy says, Cersei may even welcome death thankfully and if it comes from the hands of Jaime, it might even seem an act of mercy - that would be fine by me, too.
Finally, that would simply make a bloody good scene to read. And maybe that's mostly why I hope so much it's going to be Jaime. It would simply be the most emotional.

As we already know, GRRM likes to bother his readers emotionally; he has done so so far and I expect nothing less in the future... There was this thing that Natalie Dormer said in the season 3 preview: 'The strength of this show is that nothing is ever completely sacred'. Of course the same goes for the books and I, too, think that's what's so powerful about them.