The Walking Dead: Thank You

"They walk. We run."

That was brutal.

I'm going to pass on debating whether or not Rick is going to survive with a couple of dozen walkers advancing on the Dale Horvath Memorial RV, and get to the big question. What just happened to our beloved Glenn? Was he horribly killed, or did those guts belong to Nicholas? I kept thinking throughout this episode that the group should stop for a moment and cover themselves with walker gore. Why didn't they? Did it all just happen too fast?

There was way too much Glenn foreshadowing. The first shot in the episode was a Glenn close-up. In the pet store, Glenn took out Hershel's watch and looked at it, maybe because he knew it could be the end for him. When Glenn and Rick were talking on the walkie, Glenn said, "Good luck, dumbass", which is the same thing he said to Rick way back when they "met". And of course there was David, the tall Alexandrian who got bit, who just wanted to get home to his wife Betsy to say goodbye, a deliberate echo of Glenn and Maggie.

Since the beginning of the series, Glenn has constantly tried to help others and do the right thing. It's why Maggie fell for him. It's why he's been one of my favorite characters for pretty much ever. If this really is the end of Glenn, I suppose it makes sense that he died trying to save his friends and giving one last chance to a man who didn't deserve it. But the thing is, Nicholas (already dead) and Glenn fell off the dumpster together, and Nicholas could very well have fallen on top of Glenn. Did Nicholas inadvertently but fittingly pay Glenn back by saving his life? Am I grasping at straws, hoping that Glenn is still alive and covered with gore, suitably disguised?

When a major character dies on this show, it's not ambiguous. Did we get this "did he die or didn't he" because the producers knew that when you have nine characters in extreme danger and two of them are fan favorites, you expect everyone to die but the two fan favorites? Honestly, it's bad either way. If Glenn really did die, I'm upset and pissed off that he died so horribly, so far from Maggie. But if Glenn didn't die, it was a cop-out. Lose, lose.

Moving right along, this was a big episode for Michonne, too. I loved the little reminder of how far Michonne has come when David was talking about how he had given up on being a person when Aaron found him. (It was so sad that David didn't get to say goodbye to his wife Betsy, and that they couldn't even retrieve the note he wrote for her.) Michonne did her best to save all of the people in her charge, and she wasn't going to take any shit from Heath about how Rick's people weren't as human and compassionate as the Alexandrians -- even if it was true. Sure, we knew that the Alexandrians were more likely to die during that death march, but not because Michonne wouldn't try just as hard to save them. They just weren't as experienced in survival "out there" as Rick's crew. I think that was what Rick meant. Or maybe I hope that was what Rick meant. Rick hasn't gotten that cold, has he?

Actually, some of the Alexandrians did step up. Scott and Annie both kept saying "leave us behind" because they were slowing the group down, which was true. David faced his inevitable death with courage. And Heath has great badass potential. In the end, Heath "got it". He looked down at his own reflection in the water and he saw himself just as Michonne had described, covered with blood, no way to tell whose it was.

I was moved by that little moment when Michonne rubbed the ink off her arm. She wasn't just moving on from David's death, or Annie's, but the possibility of Glenn's as well. I also liked that all three final survivors were African American. It felt like a little message from the producers about how fans kept noticing that more black characters kept dying in earlier seasons. No more.

We didn't spend much time with Rick or the parade detail in this one. Rick mostly ran, plus we were meant to notice that he cut his hand pretty badly. (It's hard to avoid comic book spoilers when you read about The Walking Dead on TV sites; apparently, Rick cutting his hand has people wondering if a comic book event is going to happen, and I will say no more.) The Wolves that attacked the RV were the group that Morgan let go in "JSS", and that really ticked me off. One of them had a jar of baby food. Rick had to be thinking that Judith and Carl could already be dead.

It was very in character for Daryl to become so impatient and worried that he left Abraham and Sasha to race to Rick's rescue, changed his mind, and then went right back to them, even though he believed Rick was probably dead. Where exactly is Rick location-wise to Daryl? We'll probably find out next week.

What with the massacre in this episode and the massacre in the last episode, the population of Alexandra has probably decreased significantly. And half of the herd is still on its way. (Sunbunny, who tweets for us here at Doux Reviews, posted, "I hope Rick realizes this is all his fault. Every single bit of it.") It's been all about the herd for three episodes now. Will the herd be the focus of the entire first half of the season?

Notes from Talking Dead

The guests were Damon Lindelof (Lost, The Leftovers) and Yvette Nicole Brown (Community, Odd Couple). Chris Hardwick started it off by saying 'This is a bucket of suck", and as you might expect, the mood was subdued and much of the discussion centered on whether or not Glenn was dead. But you see, none of the cast were there on the couch, Glenn was referred to but not actually listed in the "In Memoriam" section, and the lack of Steven Yeun as a guest, as well as the statement Chris read by Scott M. Gimple saying that in some way we'll see Glenn again, made it obvious to me that the producers were trying to freak us out, and that Glenn probably isn't dead.

The discussion also covered how fans decide which characters are unkillable: Rick, Michonne, Daryl, Glenn -- but one of the reasons why The Walking Dead is such a powerhouse of a show is that no one is safe. Lindelof talked in particular about killing off a much loved Lost character at the end of the third season. Definitely applicable.

If you would like to read Scott M. Gimple's complete statement to the fans about Glenn, it's at the top of this article. And at the bottom of the article is some possible spoiler information about whether or not Glenn is still alive. You've been warned!

Bits and pieces:

-- The road through town had a prominent crack right down the middle. Could that possibly be a metaphorical crack?

-- How cool was it that the RV still had balloons on it? I also liked that they didn't even show us the three other guys that Rick killed. We just saw the before and after in Rick's rear view mirror. Could be some symbolism there, too.

-- I honestly thought Nicholas was on his way to redemption, especially after he took responsibility for the former team member he'd abandoned. Glenn told Nicholas, "You're not that guy anymore." Wrong.

-- Scott, the bald black guy with the beard who got shot by one of his own, was played by Kenric Green, Sonequa Martin-Green's husband.

-- David wanted to stay alive long enough to say goodbye to his wife Betsy. But Alexandria is a shambles. Is Betsy even still alive?

-- Things I could do without: all that human death, and what got to me most was that pet shop with cages full of bones. Animal death on this show is too much for me. Okay, Annie's and David's deaths were way too graphic, too, and took too long. Annie had a gun in her hand. Why didn't you blow off your own head, Annie? Why didn't Michonne and Heath kill David?

-- Executive producer Greg Nicotero was one of the walkers. I think I saw him in the dumpster scene.

-- Next week's episode is ninety minutes long. Check your DVR!


Alexandrian: "You brought us all out here to die." I'm sorry, but I had to laugh when he died a minute later.

Michonne: "We're gonna catch up with a lot of things, and we're gonna end them. We have no choice."

Abraham: "The magic number's twenty. That's the mission. That's making sure they're all munching on infirm raccoons the rest of their undead lives instead of any of us."
And of course, any people who are trying to survive out that way.

Michonne (to Heath): "Have you ever had to kill people because they'd already killed your friends and were coming for you next? Have you ever done things that made you feel afraid of yourself afterward? Have you ever been covered in so much blood that you didn't know if it was yours, or walkers, or your friends? Huh? Then you don't know."

This episode was riveting, but it really pissed me off. How would you guys rate it? How many rolls of receipt tape out of four?

Billie Doux loves good television, especially science fiction, and spends way too much time writing about it.


Jess Lynde said...

Alright, I’m breaking radio silence for this one. What. The. Hell, show?! Honestly, I’m pissed no matter how Glenn’s fate shakes out. As you say, Billie, it’s lose-lose at this point. It’s a cheap and hugely manipulative cop-out if Glenn somehow managed to survive that mess. And if he’s dead, it’s just the umpteenth example of the show’s relentless nihilism, which is finally starting to wear thin for me. Particularly when combined with the monotonous repetition of the “the only way to survive in this world is to sacrifice your humanity” and “mercy and kindness are a sucker’s game” themes.

You all know I’ve been crazy obsessed with the show for a long time now, but its pessimistic point of view has become increasingly frustrating for me of late. I really hate the “you were wrong, but you were still right” crap they do with Rick and Carol (and I say that as a fan of both characters), and I’m now I’m royally pissed that they not only killed Glenn off (seemingly), but had him undone by his generosity of spirit. It’s absolutely maddening that all of the people trying to survive in a way that lets them hold on to some shred of humanity just get torn apart for it (literally).

Plenty of people manage to live in harsh, brutal environments without sacrificing community and decency. One of the arguments for community is to band together so that the stronger members can help protect the whole group, and so that our care for each other can see us through rough times. Compassion and forgiveness are not synonymous with weakness. Glenn presented a valid and necessary counterpoint to Rick’s ugly view of this world (I think Rick has gotten that cold), even having experienced most of the same shit Rick has, and he was becoming a strong, hopeful leader in his own right. I was rooting so hard for him and Michonne to get a win here. But, of course, the writers had to have his mercy fail spectacularly. Because Rick’s way is always right, even when he’s wrong. (I’m extremely skeptical that Rick or the writers have any intention of acknowledging that any single bit of this was his fault. They’ll probably just pin it on the soft Alexandrians and Glenn’s mercy. But I suppose we’ll see.)

I wish the writers would stop punishing people for kindness and decency just to prop up Rick’s bleak worldview. And I wish we could have room for real hope in this ‘verse. But there I go with that football again. Ack! I wonder when my growing frustration will overtake my obsession with this show. “I’m crazy for trying, and crazy for crying, and I’m crazy for loving you.” :)

Anonymous said...

I'm not particularly upset by how the episode went, though as everyone has already mentioned, enough with the “do something decent and get rewarded with death” routine. Surprise us and do something different for once, show how people could be more useful alive than vengefully murdered. The whole is Glenn dead or not question was really only exacerbated by Talking Dead and show runner statements. If I were someone binge-watching this season all at once in the future I feel it would all be a complete nonissue. Guess they envied the situation with Game of Thrones currently (there you have to wait a whole season too!).

Glenn himself I'm ready to let go. I too felt close to him as the character you could self-identify with in the earliest seasons, but as far as the show and storylines are concerned, he really didn't have all that much to do for a long time. Unfortunately, I feel his (possible) abscene won't make much of a difference and he will quickly fade from memory.

In the end the episode wasn't boring and things are moving along. I'm looking forward to what's next, if a little worried that they might be spending all or most of next week with Morgan flashbacks.

KB said...

I think this is the beginning of the end for Glenn. meaning he makes it out of the alley but not without a bite or two. It really does appear as if Nicholas falls on top of him. It's possible that all of his blood shields Glenn to some extent, enough so that maybe he gets under the dumpster and stays hidden? I just can't imagine they would actually kill him off in some alley with no final goodbye. He's too much of a beloved character for that kind of death.

sunbunny said...

So after watching this episode and becoming totally convinced that one of my absolute faves was walker meat, I decided to rewatch the first few episodes of the series, mostly to torture myself. Then I noticed something. Okay so the second episode where Rick is riding into Atlanta on the horse and gets surrounded and attacked by the herd has some really interesting parallels and potential parallels with Glenn's current situation. For Rick, his first lucky break was the herd getting the horse first. It's really hard to tell in the scene with Glenn, but I'm pretty sure the walkers are feasting on Nicolas and not Glenn. Mostly because I think you'd probably pass out in pain if you were being eviscerated. Next, Rick is able to get under the tank. Glenn and Nicolas fell right by a dumpster that Glenn could theoretically get under. The biggest piece of maybe I'm just in denial foreshadowing comes when Glenn saves Rick who is trapped in the tank. He tells him that he helped him because he'd want someone to do the same for him if he was ever in a situation like that. There was a deliberate callback to their meeting when Glenn and Rick first split up (the dumbass comment). And yes, I may just be grasping at straws and there's every chance that "oh we'll see Glenn again" means he'll turn up as a walker and Maggie will have to shoot him or something else incredibly depressing.

Rick, Darryl, Michonne, and everyone are all too far away to come to Glenn's rescue. And if this episode is meant to be concurrent with last week's, Morgan, Carol, and everyone else in Alexandria have their hands full. But (maybe this is crazy) what about the Wolves? Morgan sent a small group of them out of town. What if they find Glenn and decide their best chance for a successful raid on Alexandria is a hostage or some inside information about Rick's people?

And yes, this is all Rick's fault for the stupid way he decided to take on the herd. How did he not see that his "let's have a walker parade!" plan had the potential to go historically wrong, even without the attack on Alexandria.

I also kept thinking about the cover yourself in guts thing they did in the first season. It's not foolproof, but it would have given Michonne's group a better chance. And let's not mention the pet store ever, ever again, okay?

Jess Lynde said...

Well, I'm pretty sure the Wolves that Morgan let go are the ones that just attacked Rick at the RV and got blown away. The first shooter looked like the guy that grabbed the gun on his way out of town. But there might be other Wolves around to rescue Glenn. After all the vague press today, I'm pretty well convinced he's getting out of that alley, however improbable and ridiculous. And irritating.

I really don't want to lose Glenn, especially this way, but I hope KB is right that if he makes it out of the alley, he at least doesn't come out of it completely unscathed. That really would make this whole death fake-out an incredibly manipulative move on the creative team's part. Maybe they can still save it for me by having Glenn's slightly later death be the thing that turns Rick back from his increasingly relentless and unfeeling path. Let Glenn's kinder, gentler view turn this thing around, instead of just turning him into another bit of cannon fodder for the nihilistic worldview.

(I know, I know. Why do I keep playing football with you Lucy? Why?!)

Heather said...

TWD is a mad mad mad mad world. I'm pretty sickened by this episode for all the reasons stated eloquently up thread and in the review. (Billie, you are handling this season's unrelenting traumas like a pro. Bless.) I don't know what else to say at this point except the 90 minute entries are pushing it. Where the show's finding itself this season is already borderline unwatchable.

TheShadowKnows said...

Honestly, I'm starting to think this show lacks redeeming value apart from the mostly good acting. The total absence of humor and positive sentiment is just too much.

Lamounier said...

What a fun, light-hearted episode. I loved how The Walking Dead decided to change formula and give us some optimism. I nearly cried of joy.

I didn’t like how on last season’s finale everything was orchestrated to prove Rick right, from the zombies entering the city to Bad Husband of Rick’s Love Interest going crazy and accidently killing the First Man. So I was happily surprised to see this episode go in the opposite direction: the guy who disagrees with Rick made safely to Alexandria, the people Rick predicted would die (Alexandrians) also made it. What a happy day.

Another thing I didn’t like from last season was Tyreese letting the guy from Terminus live, and how that eventually proved to be a terrible call. So I was happy when this episode revealed that Morgan letting the Wolves go was just a hallucination: he killed them all. What a great turn of events. It’s a good thing that this show doesn’t need to keep the decent people doing dumb things just to prove them wrong.

Speaking of decent people, let’s also rejoice on the fact that people who hold on to their humanity are no longer doomed. After Dale, Hershel, Beth and Tyreese, all folks who tried to have some hope and decency, got killed, we were worried that Glenn sparing Nicolas’ life would come back to bite him in the ass. What a marvelous twist that the unlikely duo managed to escape from the walkers. I was in shock when they held their hands and started dancing and singing “They Got The Mustard Out” in celebration. Who knew they were fans of Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

All in all, a terrific episode, with no anvils being throw at the audience to prove points, no exaggerated bleakness, just the good guys winning the battle and having some hope for a change.


Lydia said...

This show was a guilty pleasure, but it is a 'pleasure' no more. I agree to most of the commenters above me who've been pissed off. I can't till if they're being sadistic on purpose or not. Rick has been particularly annoying this season, just like he was the last. Everything with his love-interest what's-her-name was just so misogynistic, how he feels the need to protect her because she 'obviously can't take care of herself'. But at this point, maybe it's not because she's a woman, maybe it's because she's from Alexandria. Man. Those guys are dumb. No wonder they're killed off one-after-the-other Horror Movie Style.

Look, I know I shouldn't expect a tv show called "THE WALKING DEAD" to be all moonbeams and unicorns, but this is just bleak beyond bleak. Like the commenter above me pointed out, being a good person on this show basically gets you killed. WELCOME TO THE WALKING DEAD, WHERE KILLING = CARING. ARE YOU A RUTHLESS MURDERER? HAVE YOU STOPPED BELIEVING IN THE GOOD THAT'S LEFT IN THE WORLD? DO YOU HAVE A TRAGIC BACKSTORY AND A STRONG WILL TO SURVIVE? THEN CONGRATULATIONS, YOU'RE QUALIFIED TO BE ON RICK'S SQUAD. To be fair, though, I do love Rick's squad, at least, what's left of it.

Carol kicking ass for example, does it say something about me that I cheer and smile inappropriately everytime she kills someone or threatens to?

And Daryl, of course! Why has he been pushed to the background this season, though? He's easily one of the best characters left on this show. More Daryl please!

I don't want to talk about Glenn Rhee.

I'd like to believe he's alive.

My delusions are what keep me from bursting into a puddle of tears and misery everytime I tune in to the show, so let's keep it that way.



Oh, did you just say you don't approve to Rick's methods? Lol. Red shirt. You'zee Gon' Die.





Poor guy doesn't get to go home to his wife. This show just makes me smile. It totally doesn't make me feel even more depressed than I normally am every time I watch it.




Rick's in a hot mess.

Does Rick even flinch when he kills someone anymore?

Rick's obviously not gonna die. Although, at this point, that kind of plot twist would just make me laugh.

The only reason I want Rick to remain alive is because I ship Richonne.

Nice review. Hated this episode, but the review cushioned the blow.

J.D. Balthazar said...

I've been avoiding thinking about this episode, partially because I'm pissed about losing a character in such a brutal senseless way. But also because one of my favorite characters is 'dead'. That makes it hard to even want to tune into this show, which is always so dreary and brutal. Can't we have at least one original character make it to the end?

Perhaps Glenn is alive, that would be nice. I don't even care if it stretches credibility. At least lets give Maggie some closure if he is dead. I don't want her to go on wondering if he's alive somewhere if he isn't.

Anyway, in an utterly expected announcement The Walking Dead and its companion show The Talking Dead were both renewed for another season.


I do still love this show, but at times like these I question the reasons why.

Billie Doux said...

Thanks, JD. Renewal! Not a surprise, when AMC has lost both Breaking Bad and Mad Men. They're not letting go of TWD any time soon. Or, thankfully, Talking Dead.

Jess Lynde said...

The worst part is for me is that whether or not Glenn physically survives, we just witnessed the death of the decent guy we’ve come to love. They made sure that he’s no longer going to be the goodhearted guy that tries to save people, because they taught him that lesson but good. They really are committed to their “no good deed goes unpunished” craptastic worldview. And I honestly don’t know how much longer I can be on board with that. I’ve had growing discontent with the show’s viewpoint for awhile, but I kept hoping things would turn around. That we were finally at the point where the nihilism would give way to community building. But now I’m realizing that isn’t going to happen for a long time, if ever. It’s very, very frustrating.

I find the series so enjoyably tense to watch in the moment, and I have come to care very much about many of the characters. But my enthusiasm for the show has taken a hard blow this week. I want to see these characters’ stories, but at the same time I want more for them than horrible, horrible death. I want more for them than some hollow form of existence in which they’ve lost everyone they love and sacrificed all their humanity just to keep surviving. “Surviving” or “not dying” are not the same thing as living. We’ve watched them merely survive and suffer terribly for 5 years now (real time), and I’ve had enough of that phase. I’m ready to see them turn it around and find a way to live, and Glenn holding on to his humanity and continuing to give people a chance seemed to be a key first step on that path. But this latest gut punch is bringing it home for me that this creative team may very well only be interested in telling the “not dying” story. [Very deep sigh.]

sunbunny said...

I guess I see the show differently than everyone else. I've honestly never thought of it as nihilistic or depressing. To me, honestly, it's almost empowering. For me, the show's philosophy has always been that life is unfair, that bad things can happen to good people and good things can happen to bad ones and that what defines us for better or worse is how we deal that fact. The show presents "opting out" as a negative thing. It puts value on the people who keep fighting, who keep trying no matter how much crazy zombie shit they have to deal with.

Jess Lynde said...

Based on their comments in interviews and such, I think that’s the way the creative team sees it, too, sunbunny. Maybe if we got to see more moments of happiness in the characters' lives, I’d feel the same way. Then we’d at least have a better sense of why they bother to keep fighting.

But those moments must only happen between seasons or episodes, because pretty much all we get to see is the fighting, the dying, and the trauma. And only bad things happen to good people. Any small moments of happiness are fleeting at best, and usually just a prelude to more massive trauma. So it ends up feeling like the only reason the characters keep going is so that they can watch everyone they care about die, and lose bigger and bigger chunks of their souls in the process. I know that’s right there in the title, and all. I just wish we could get some positives other than "survival" to balance all the trauma.

Heather said...

Personally, I'm not mad at the philosophy of the show, I think the writing is not consistently good and never has been. At best, the creative team either has no clue how many infractions we have already allowed them as an audience or... worse, they don't really care, which in turn, makes it hard for me to. The average viewer of this show, it's been said, falls into one of two categories: viewers who love zombie action and gore and viewers who are fascinated with the drama of how people could continue to live in the ZA. It's also been said that it's this reason that the show has so many viewers because it miraculously straddles two huge diverse demographics.
Ultimately, for me, there's always sort of just enough quasi-compelling storylines coupled with, imo, a wonderful group of actors who sell the shite out of their characters to keep me watching but I suspected since S3 that there would come a time when I would crawl away. And after this week's ep, that time is now upon me!
I am however enjoying this lively discussion. :)

Billie Doux said...

I'm with Sunbunny here. It is absolutely true that TWD can be depressing and overwhelming and I completely understand if some viewers are ready to stop watching. But TWD is about survival under the worst of circumstances, which means the characters keep dying -- even the ones we love. That's what the show has always been, and I assume that's what it will always be. I'm not expecting the show to change. Except maybe in the last half of the final season, whenever that will be.

FWIW, I finally saw Jericho this summer. It's a show about the nuclear apocalypse that is also about people changing in order to survive. It's uplifting and much less depressing, and centers a lot more on community-building. I kept thinking of TWD while I was watching it. Doesn't make either of them wrong. It's just a different approach to an extremely heavy topic.

Jess Lynde said...

Well, like Heather, I long suspected the cumulative misery would eventually get me with this show, and it looks like it is finally starting to happen. I’ve been wondering since Ep. 26 when I wouldn’t be able to take the suffering anymore. Seventy episodes might be the magic number (or the “magic is gone” number, as it were). Or the beginning of the end at least. I haven’t actually hit the wall yet, but I can now see it there on the horizon, and it seems to be getting closer every day. If (when?) I do actually hit that wall, I’ll have to go find Jericho as a palate cleanser. Thanks for the recommendation, Billie!

Billie Doux said...

Jericho starts too slowly and takes a bit to get going, but it's not a huge commitment. And coincidentally, it stars Lennie James.

Lamounier said...

Well, it seems the comic novels are much more depressing and dark than the series (which is a reason why some of the comic books fans don't like the TV adaptation), so I don't think the showrunners will be dropping the depressing aspects of the story any time soon.

My primary problem with the show is not characters we love going through horrible deaths. That’s hard to take, yes, but it makes sense with the show being set on a zombie apocalypse. What I’ve been finding harder and harder to accept is what Jess described as "'no good deed goes unpunished' craptastic worldview". Especially if they'll have nice characters doing dumb things to prove them wrong, and ruthless characters getting away with anything just because.

Marianna said...

I'm not frustrated so much that Glenn died (if he did) than that he died in a meaningless way. I always thought if he died it would be in an act that saved everyone else. Here he unsuccessfully tried to create a diversion and fell off a dumpster trying to stop Nicholas from shooting himself, which was clearly impossible.

"I kept thinking throughout this episode that the group should stop for a moment and cover themselves with walker gore." - I think it happened too fast and also there was no way to pull a walker in to get the guts without alerting the herd to their location.

"I hope Rick realizes this is all his fault. Every single bit of it." - I completely disagree. All of the sources of danger were there and building before Rick and his group arrived. The Alexandrians were living with their heads in the sand and pretending they were safe. No one bothered to check the quarry to see if the walkers were building. (And no I don't buy the "light them all on fire" plan. That would take an enormous amount of flammable material and fire doesn't kill walkers immediately so you would still have a herd of walkers heading your way, except now it's a herd that's on fire.) No one bothered to put actual security on the place in case someone tried to break in. No one thought of the possible security threat pictures of their walls getting passed around could pose. Rick is doing the best he can to fix all of these things the Alexandrians let happen.

I thought Annie didn't shoot herself because she was using her remaining bullets/time to kill as many walkers as she could. It's noble really. For David, I thought the same thing, why can't the put him out of his misery, but the way they were clawing at him trying to get a knife through would risk being scratched. Bullets are a precious commodity, especially in the situation they're in, so I don't think they could stand to waste one.

Assuming Glenn is dead, my prediction (bearing in mind that I have not read the comics and have no actual knowledge of what is going to happen) is that Maggie is pregnant. It seems like the kind of cruel thing the show would do to Maggie would be to kill off the love of her life just as they were about to start a family.

"I guess I see the show differently than everyone else. I've honestly never thought of it as nihilistic or depressing. To me, honestly, it's almost empowering. For me, the show's philosophy has always been that life is unfair, that bad things can happen to good people and good things can happen to bad ones and that what defines us for better or worse is how we deal that fact. The show presents "opting out" as a negative thing. It puts value on the people who keep fighting, who keep trying no matter how much crazy zombie shit they have to deal with." - Sunbunny, that was beautiful!

Billie, you should try to be on the panel they referred to on Talking Dead!